Vote Early!
Any Fargo voter can vote early. Early voting will be taking place June 2nd to June 6th from 11-6pm at the Doublewood Inn. 3333 13th Ave South in Fargo.
Must bring a valid North Dakota I.D. to vote.
Absentee Ballot
To download an absentee ballot application click here
Smoker or Non-smoker, the ballot this coming June transcends just the issue of tobacco. This vote is about choice, charity, and checks and balances.
Choice. Nearly 85% of drinking and eating establishments in Fargo are either entirely smoke-free or have strict restrictions on where patrons may smoke. Remodeling efforts have cost businesses tens of thousands of dollars in order to cater to those who choose to smoke and those who do not wish to be around the smoking environment. Citizens of Fargo have the ability to choose to eat and drink in a smoke free environment and have been given ample opportunities to do so. If this ban passes, veterans who fought to protect our rights to choose will lose their privilege of choice. We don’t think that’s fair.
Charity. More than just places to smoke, many of the businesses that would be effected by the ban offer charitable gaming as part of their services. Using Minnesota as an example, it’s clear to see that the revenue lost from a smoking ban will have a profound impact on charities that give back to the community.
Check and Balances. Fargo, you voted once. You decided what was fair. To you, it was fair to allow some businesses to allow customers to smoke as long as there were enough options to protect those who didn’t want to be in a smoky environment. Fargo City Commissioners are attempting to take away the standing power of measures voted on by the people. This ballot isn’t just about the smoking ban. If commissioners are allowed to change policies on a whim, the people of Fargo will have to fit the bill for the special interest groups who influence the commissioners. Don’t let your American privilege of voting be thrown away by having a bigger issue nestled in a hot topic.
Many people stand firmly on either side of the smoking issue. Whether you agree with the use of tobacco or not, we encourage you to look closely at this site and take heed of the potential democratic and economic fallout that could occur if a total ban passes.
50 Responses to “Vote Yes. No. Yes.
On Measures #1, #2 and #3”
Leave a Reply
May 15th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
People have a CHOICE if they want to go to a bar that allows smoking. They have the CHOICE not to work at a place that allows smoking. The voters have already voted on this and they made the CHOICE which law they wanted. How can a person or group of people decide that since they didn’t like what the voters CHOSE, they can change it? If they take away our CHOICE to smoke in bars, can we bring it back to a vote in a couple of years? The voters had a CHOICE of 3 different options, including a total smoking ban and they made their CHOICE! Look at Moorhead when MN went smokefree. The Broken Ax went out of business, Psitol Pete’s moved to West Fargo. People can argue that the ban had nothing to do with it, but the Ax’s parking lot was always full before the ban and after, there was maybe a couple of dozen cars in the lot.
What’s next, they want to ban smoking outside? In our own yards? In our houses? Smoking is legal, but our freedom to CHOOSE is becoming illegal. There are plenty of non-smokers that think this is wrong. They make the CHOICE if they want to go out to the bars that allow smoking or one of the non-smoking bars.
Thanks for letting me ramble.
May 15th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
You guys are only about forcing workers to CHOOSE between health OR their job. YOU want to CHOOSE FOR others rather than letting voters have what they actually want. FREEDOM means you don’t have to choose between cancer or making a living.
But most people know that, which is why they support a total workplace smoking ban EVERY time it comes up for a vote.
May 15th, 2008 at 4:50 pm
Just wondering - most websites are pretty upfront about who is sponsoring them or who is paying for them. This website does not say. My guess is that this website is sponsored by the tobacco industry (in one fashion or another). Of course, I suppose they want to make sure that North Dakotans keep spending their hard-earned cash on tobacco products and make the tobacco-suits rich folks.
We all know that along with smoke-free environments comes a lower number of people who smoke. Wouldn’t that be a shame for big tobacco? But, really, wouldn’t that be a wonderful, healthful breath of fresh air for current tobacco users (most who have probably tried to quit multiple times) and their families?
May 16th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
I believe STRONGLY that people who want to smoke should be able to, and that no one forces anyone to work in a smoking environment or to frequent them.
May 16th, 2008 at 2:22 pm
This Website is sponsored by a local group of business people who believe in The Freedom To Choose. The Fargo Retailers Association believes that this issue is not only about people being able to run their businesses as they choose, but the issue has immense economic implications. These businesses include truck stops, bowling alleys, coin operators, a limited number of liquor establishments and service and veterans clubs that donate hundreds of thousands of dollars per year into community involvement projects.
May 16th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
LOST IN THE WHOLE DISCUSSION IS MY RIGHTS AS A PROPERTY OWNER. IF I WANT SMOKING IN MY BUSINESS IT SHOULD BE MY DECISION. JUST BECAUSE SOME JUDGE SOMEWHERE RULED THAT BUSINESSES ARE “PUBLIC PLACES” DOESEN’T MAKE IT RIGHT. MAYBE WE SHOULD BE VOTING ON THAT TOO. COUNT ME IN FROM THE ASPECT OF PROPRTY RIGHTS. GOVERNMENT IS JUST TOO DAMN BIG ANYWAY. P.S. I DON’T EVEN SMOKE.
May 17th, 2008 at 2:08 am
I think folks should be able to smoke in places that are cut off from the non-smoking areas. I have a very sensitive sense of smell and the smell of cigarette smoke really bothers me. Now, I smoked for 16 years and quit a few years ago - so I’ve been on both sides of this polarizing issue. What’s a good compromise, you ask?
Allow smoking indoors, in separate areas. If they don’t have separate entrances, then please make sure the doors seal well so the smoke doesn’t drift out. This alone will keep smokers from congregating right outside the main doors of an establishment and forcing non-smokers to walk through their haze. I’ve heard a lot of non-smokers get really upset by this alone. I’d hate to think they’d vote to banish smoking altogether because of this issue.
The other choice? A total ban on smoking in public unless you’re at least 100 feet away from a public entrance or sitting in your personal car. Sound awful? I think so too.
May 19th, 2008 at 6:56 pm
I am a non smoker. I do not work for the tobacco industry. Have people forgotten history, prohibition did not work. We are becoming a socialistic county disregarding the will of the people. Tobacco is a legal product. Many people and industries are tied together. When you dismantle this legal industry what will be next. Where will it stop? Don’t give me the argument that it is not good for you; life is dangerous you have free will. Chose not to smoke, the key is chose. Oh by the way just wondering, it’s my money, not yours or the governments, worry about where you spend your money and I will worry about me.
May 20th, 2008 at 10:10 am
Guys -
All you need to do to get an absentee ballot is go to:
http://www.nd.gov/eforms/Doc/sfn51468.pdf
Webmaster - you should post this on your websight in bold letters.
I plan on voting ‘yes, no, yes’ - lets allow people to make the decision with their business instead of letting a loud few force the issue. This is what capitolism is all about.
May 20th, 2008 at 11:37 am
I want to start by saying that I do not smoke. Never have and never will.
In this country you have to be an adult to smoke (legally anyway) and I do not know of anyone that does not know the health risks that smoking may lead too. You also have to be an adult to drink, again I don’t know anyone that doesn’t know the potential health risks of drinking too much. So everyone that this law will affect are consenting adults. I say that the City Commission, and goverment in general, should get off our backs and treat us like we are adult that have the ability to make an informed decision for ourselves. I do not smoke because I choose not to, but I also go to smoky bars to be with my friends because I choose too, in spite of the health risks. It is my choice, not there’s.
Beyond my view on goverment local smoking bans are an economic mistake. If the ban is state or region-wide then the economic would be mitigated because people would have no other choice but to not smoke and would get used to it (eventually). Fargo is the heart of a good sized metro area. In such a metro area people have choice and if Fargo passes this ban the business in West Fargo, Casselton and Mapleton will sky rocket. Resulting in reduced business in Fargo and probably a few closed bars.
Here’s one for the City Commission, reduced business at Fargo bars means reduced taxes from said businesses, and if the business close that means to Taxes at all.
As I said, I do not smoke but many of my friends do. I will not disown these people. I will patron a smoke-free bar but many of my friend will not. When I go to a bar it is to socialize with my friends. If they will not go to a bar then I probably will not either.
Hoss
May 21st, 2008 at 4:30 pm
I make sure that if I am going out for a social hour or a night out that the establishment allows smoking. If they do not, I do not go there. If it turns out to be a total ban in Fargo, I will not go out anymore and entertain more at home and go to home parties.
CC
May 21st, 2008 at 9:19 pm
I could really see this issue being alot more being imperative if there were no non-smoking establishments.
THERE ARE PLENTY. as far as the rights of eployees yes, they choose wether they want to work in a particular establishment or not. They are not forced out of necessity. If that were the case then what about the people who need a job but don’t want to see nude women.
Should the public ban topless bars???
May 22nd, 2008 at 2:31 pm
I am a past smoker that smoked for 25 years. I am also a retired army vet that served over 20 years of active duty army stationed here in the states and three over-sea’s tours. I am also college educated and hold 3 degrees. I no longer smoke and I am not a preacher one way or the other, but I believe in our rights.
Our rights were over-ruled when the great heads that are in charge here in Fargo over-ruled our vote because they didn’t get the answer they wanted.
If you are an adult you should be able to choose and your choice should be honored…Fargo…make your choice heard AGAIN. When will “they” stop? Better yet, where will “they” stop? “They” know what is good for us and want to treat us like children and make our decisions for us, even though we already voiced it once. It has to stop know. What is next?
It is proven that when issues come to a public vote, more people will turn out for the vote opposed than for. Those that are for will hope it gets approved, and those against will make sure it gets voted against.
Let’s make our voices heard AGAIN and let everyone in your circle know about this too.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:14 pm
This all started when the people let them slip in a seat belt law which was deemed best for us by the goverment. Once they got that through, they figured that the people now want the government and the few to dictate to us what is good for us. What is going to be next - going out to have a drink, drinking in your home, smoking in your home??? We have to draw a line in the sand and say you do not have the right to tell me what is legally right to do. I agree with the statements above - if they do not want to go into a bar that allows smoking, then go elsewhere. Or the same, if they don’t like the smell of smoke then get a job somewhere that doesn’t allow smoking.
WE NEED TO STOP HAVING OTHERS TELL OTHERS WHAT IS GOOD FOR THEM AND LEAVE IT TO THE PERSON TO DECIDE, INCLUDING THE SEAT BELT LAW. THAT SHOULD BE RETHOUGHT THROUGH, AS IT IS NOW ONLY A MEANS OF REVENUE. THEY USE IT TO BRING IN MONEY AND THAT IS WHAT THEY WILL DO ONCE THIS SMOKING THING GOES THROUGH. THEY WILL FINE PEOPLE THAT SMOKE.
May 22nd, 2008 at 10:19 pm
The upcoming vote on smoking is about people who have never darkened the door of a bar that allows smoking choosing to close a business that they never patronize in the first place - and then sit at home congratulating themselves about all of the people and businesses they put out of a job. Nonsmokers die too, and not just from second-hand smoke.
Do you find it ironic that we are being asked to vote for an economic development sales tax increase on the same day we are being asked to put many businesses out of business, and cost the city of Fargo hundreds of related jobs in other businesses that will also be affected?
I would venture to guess that the truck stops in Fargo make a large contribution to our tax base, and provide more jobs than I could count.
Truckers that stop in Fargo buy more than just fuel, rooms, food, you name it. If the no smoking law passes, they will bypass Fargo.
Have you ever heard any of the anti-smoking crowd mention the words freedom or liberty in any of their promos?
It’s a dark road we all must follow if hundreds of people and businesses are put out of work by a slim majority of voters who have never in their lifetime
been forced to be customers of a few bars and truck stops that allow smoking.
In truth, it is about 20% of our population being forced to get mad at all the goody-two-shoes they don’t socialize with anyhow - that’s what it is, pure and simple. Even if they are right - they are wrong to kill businesses and jobs of human beings they don’t happen to agree with.
The economic impact of hundreds of people losing their jobs will affect many more businesses than just a few bars and truck stops. Speak up and vote yes-no-yes, for the good of every business in Fargo.
Why don’t they force people to stay home to drink coffee - that’s some evil stuff. Gall stones, kidney stones, high blood pressure, stained teeth,
and second-hand coffee breath, yuk!!
May 23rd, 2008 at 6:55 am
I’m a West Fargo resident and unfortunately what happens to Fargo and Moorhead seems to trickle over here. I do not work for the tobacco industry. I do not smoke and NEVER have. I work for a company that does not allow any smoking in our building. I’m fine with that. I hate smoking and can’t stand to be around people when they do it.
However, I absolutely CANNOT stand the busy bodies in the local governments that seem to believe it’s their obligation to protect us from ourselves. Nobody is holding a gun to my head to eat at restaurants that allow smoking or frequent bars that allow it. Same goes for employment! If my employer allowed smoking in my work area, I would simply find other employment.
It should be up to each individual business owner whether they wish to cater to people that smoke or people that don’t. If there is a market for completely smoke-free restaurants and bars (and I believe there is!), let the owners make that decision on their own. Not through some ham-fisted law.
Freedom of choice is a long standing tenet of American thought that has really started to erode, it seems, in the past few years. You’ve seen it with everything from seatbelts to helmets and, now, to smoking. This is yet another example of our society going down the slippery slope of the socialistic/fascistic nanny state mentality. The masses are incapable of thinking or acting the “correct” way, so we need laws to protect them from themselves. Absolute rubbish!!!
May 23rd, 2008 at 9:45 pm
I’m for everyone to have the right to walk through the door of ANY establishment and breath fresh air. I can’t go to some bars because they allow smoking. I would like to CHOOSE to do that because they are good places. I could choose to visit some non-smoking and I sometimes do but I would like to be able to have the whole area’s entertainment locations and options open to me. Right now that isn’t happening and I feel like my CHOICES have been limited by the current smoking policy!
This isn’t about going to any bar BECAUSE it it has a non-smoking policy. This is about CHOOSING to support an establishment that is fun to be in. Right now I am LIMITED as to where I can go to meet friends and have a few drinks.
I look forward to the day when I can spend my entertainment dollar ANYWHERE in Fargo!
May 24th, 2008 at 11:32 pm
We need to take this a few steps further and BAN government regulations on kitchen and fire codes! I’m SICK and TIRED of governments trying to tell me how to run MY business!
May 25th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
“YES NO YES” - POWER TO THE PEOPLE
May 28th, 2008 at 12:51 am
to Norval Lee:
Trying to equate coffee drinking to smoking is laughable at best, and ridiculously ill informed at best.
I have never heard of anyone getting cancer from second hand coffee drinking.
May 28th, 2008 at 1:50 pm
UNBAN KEEP IT REAL
May 28th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
Ray you are right about one thing, that the “fun places to go” are the ones that allow smoking. These places are busy and fun for a reason. They are still open and full of people. Your options if a total smoking ban were to take place would be just as limited, simply put less people would be out in the market. Not so much because the smoke, but the fact that the price to drink will go up, becasue smokers will spend less money.
May 29th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Today on the in-forum website, an article was posted about pre-election spending. It was interesting, but what the article did not state, is of the over 18000 dollars raised (the actual total $18050) only 50 dollars was raised locally. How much local support does it show, when the bulk (99.73%) of the ban supporters budget is coming from Mandan? This Mandan money is basically grant money, while the business owners are dipping in their pockets and spending their earned money.
May 29th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
Billy, in regards to your post about “forcing workers to choose”, you forget something. It is not as if bar owners and managers are draging people off the street and making them work. If a boxer does not want to get hit, he doesnt step in the ring. And just so you are aware, total smoking bans have been voted down before in Fargo, and on the state level. So to say that they are supported “EVERY” time you are incorrect. The voters of Fargo and the state of North Dakota are smart enough to know when their freedom to choose is being taken away.
May 30th, 2008 at 6:28 am
I am a non-smoker and worked in a bar for years. We are all talking about a LEGAL PRODUCT. If we’re using the health of society as the motivating concern, then why not focus the effort on outlawing tobacco altogether.
And where does the gouging of the business owner end? The purchasing of the business, the insurances, licenses, taxes, special permits, etc… They pay for it, let them do business as they see fit. If I choose not to go there because they allow smoking, then they don’t get my money, but let them make that choice. I sure as hell wouldn’t want people who don’t even enter my business make a decision on how I run it.
I say that if the complete smoking ban is voted in, we rally the troops and take on McDonalds! Lord knows that stuff isn’t healthy either. Where does it end?
May 30th, 2008 at 7:30 am
I am not a Fargo resident, but i support yes.no.yes. I just want to cheer you on. Get all of your patrons to vote. I have seen what has happened in Moorhead, don’t let it happen here.
May 30th, 2008 at 8:10 am
I have first hand information, I am not a smoker, I live in Minnesota and I work in North Dakota, and I am involved in an environmental friendly charitible organization in Minnesota. I believe in the right of smokers and business owners to choose, as long as non-smokers and yes, businesses that do not want smoking, have the right to choose. I have experienced and seen firsthand what Minnesota total smoking ban has done. Five (5) eating/alcohol type businesses in a 30 mile radius of my home have closed. Another is teetering to keep the doors open and I believe will soon close. The owners already have their home for sale. Close friends that used to spend $100 + every Friday night and sometimes Saturday night no longer go out. Entertaining has moved “underground” so to speak. They would rather spend the money to go out but the government has made that choice for them. Please do everything you can to get THE MESSAGE OUT to everyone that shares this position - GET OUT THE VOTE! Yes, No, Yes — for freedon.
May 30th, 2008 at 12:38 pm
Choice between cancer and making a living? That is one of the comments I read, yet at the same time the turnover in restaurant service is like a revolving door. Pretty easy for a bartender to get a job in Moorhead right now where there is NO SMOKING. Hmmm if anything The ban in Moorhead makes it conducive for people on either side of this debate. Hey! If I own a business I should be able to run it how I see fit within reason and I think smoking in a bar is within reason. What’s next? I can’t have a cigar in my basement, or back yard? KEEP IN MIND I AM NOT A SMOKER. I am however, an American, and free enterprise is the corner stone to our society, it promotes creativity, ingenuity, efficiency, and uniqueness. Governing the policies of private business is unamerican and a contradiction to our roots. Where were you smoking ban fanatics when Stroup’s and 21st ammendmant voluntarily opened smoke free Bars down town and couldn’t afford to keep the doors open? What was the CHOICE for those employees?
May 30th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
I’m a Minnesota resident who’s seen the damage that the smoking ban has caused. There are many people who will die early because of all the stress they’ve endured with their struggling business; especially if they can no longer stay in business. I think it’s a shame that people who hate smoke are so quick to believe that second-hand smoke is deadly, and won’t take the time to research the history of the EPA’s flawed study done in the 1990s. Yet, somehow, the Surgeon General and other corrupt non-profits continue to bring up this study as though it is the truth, even though a federal court slammed the report for many questionable and unethical research methods. Of course, there’s also the commercials we see on TV that state how bad second hand smoke is. And many people just blindly believe them.
I think this is a great website and I wish the best to all Fargo business owners. I firmly believe that if Minnesota residents were given the choice to vote, the vote would have been for something similar to the current Fargo ban.
May 30th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
Tom Pantera wrote an interesting article in the F-M Extra. It was about the loss of revenue for the Moorhead Golds Baseball Team. The V.F.W. gave them $8500.00 less than last year. The article goes on to quote the gaming manager at the American Legion as saying “If we have lost 5 smokers, I dont think we gained one”. They are also down $40,000 the first quarter the ban took effect. The article goes on to say about “25″ whole people pushed to get the total smoking ban on the ballet. Remember this when you talk about agenda pushing in this blog and anywhere else. Its a good article in the May 23rd edition of the F-M Extra.
May 30th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
The Math is Clear, and does not lie. Bars are closing all over the country and charities are down. Say what ever you want, but this is a business issue and people have a right to choose how to run their business. Bars owners who have been in business for over 20 years that dont owe the bank a penny dont go out of business because of poor management.
May 31st, 2008 at 1:28 pm
I am behind the owners 100%. It should totally be up to the owner of the establishment if he/she wants to be smoking or non-smoking. If the owners are forced to have their establishment non-smoking these people will loose almost all of their business. People that go to bars go there to relax, and if those people smoke I think it is there right to smoke. This whole smoking ban was just something a group of people that are uptight, pompas jackasses who have absolutly nothing better to do with their lives created just to cause a ruckus. they don’t give a damn about how it is going to severely affect the businesses in this town. When all these establishments go out of business because of the loss of all the smokers business, the people who thought up this stupid measure will not have anywhere to go and have a nice drink.
Putting a ban on smoking in bars is about as stupid as if someone put a ban on all the fast food joints restricting what people can eat according to their weight. If you are too FAT all you get is a salad. Pretty silly isn’t it
June 1st, 2008 at 2:50 am
As I sit overseas on a deployment in Iraq I read the fargo forum and other news clips. I think it is funny how the area is wanting to put in affect a half cent tax increase. Why do you think they are doing this? Just as a guess they are trying to make everyone pay for the loss in taxes that the bar industry pays to the city. Look at the numbers. Say a bar has sales of $500000 for one year. The going rate of sales tax in Fargo is 8%. That is roughly $40000 in taxes that bar pays. Now if they go out of business those nice goody two shoers are planning on everyone making up the difference. So no matter how you look at it they are going to get their tax money but it wont be the bars paying it, it will be everyone. Good luck with that
June 1st, 2008 at 1:50 pm
I for one am a smoker. I do have many friends that are non smokers. But neither of those little tid bits really matter. This is the United States of America… A Democratic, Capitalist society. If you want to the government to control businesses and therefore the economy go find yourself a COMMUNIST country to live in and leave those of us who appreciate individual freedom alone.
This is just another measure that local governments have been wasting tax payer dollars on to make it look like they are actually doing something. In a time when you have record numbers of young teens, like late elementary and middle school kids, hooked on meth among various other ILLEGAL drugs; we don’t hear a damn thing about the local government or law enforcement doing anything to slow this down let alone stop it. It just seems funny to me that the only laws that seem to be getting pushed are the ones that don’t really do anything (seatbelts, helmets, and now smoking) but it sure is generating revenue for the local police departments.
To be fair to all of the bleeding hearted busy bodies out there, no smoking is not good for a person. But then again carbon monoxide is not good for the air of the entire planet. Of course why would they take up an issue that would actually affect them when they can just make a lot of noise because “they care so much” about everyone who doesn’t share their opinion.
The real issue here is whether or not we want the USA to turn into a communist country. I for one do not. Any other “reason” people give for these measures is total B.S. the bottom line is that they want to tell other individuals how to go through life. Don’t let the people in government and bleeding hearted busy bodies pull the wool over your eyes with these “feel good” laws that don’t actually do anything for our society.
June 1st, 2008 at 10:22 pm
In response to a poster who stated that we are taking away his CHOICE between his health and earning a living.. I guess you should have studied harder in school, built a marketable skill set so you were not so limited in your job CHOICES as an adult.
Leave the decision to the individual business owner. I believe it is their right as an American to decide what is good for their business. Isn’t that the foundation of our economic philosophy?
If you have friends that smoke and go out to strickly places that smoke and YOU have to make the choice to go to those establishments, maybe you should work on getting them to quit vs infringing on my rights to be able to smoke.
June 3rd, 2008 at 10:21 am
DON’T FORGET TO VOTE OUT LINDA COATES and MIKE WILLIAMS! WE WON’T HAVE AN END TO THIS ISSUE UNTIL THEY ARE GONE! GONE! GONE!
June 3rd, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Everyone is so up in arms about establishments going out of business if we ban smoking. If all places of business are the same, that would not be something to worry about. Smokers will continue to smoke, however this time it will be outside and us non-smokers won’t have to be bothered by that.
June 3rd, 2008 at 6:18 pm
I am a non smoker with children. Being in a smoking environment has never bothered me, to expose me or my children to second hand smoke once or twice a month is no worse than going camping… better if you throw styrofoam in the fire. I also enjoy bringing my children into venues that have good video games, pool and darts; yes and have a beer or two also. I raise my children to be adults in an adult world and a bar environment will be part of their world just as it is ours.
I voted for the compromise at the last referendum, thinking it would be best to have the least restrictive of options. Instead of having a happy medium with plenty of options, the doors were closed.. literally. I was turned away from every place I brought my children to teach them how to play pool. This site lies when it says 85% of the venues are smoke free, Fargo has 2 smoke free places where you can do this with children. Pops Roadside and Labby’s. Labby’s is a college hangout and innapropriate for children. I was shot in the foot by supporting the choice you are fighting for.
I intend to vote for the totally restrictive choice this time, so I can once again be allowed to bring my children everywhere I go. As a non smoker, I should be given at least as many rights as the smoker gets.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:27 pm
Haven’t we already had this arguement? Seems to me I voted on this issue already. This isn’t about health issues or even economics - it’s about the right to choose. The business men and women that own these establishments and pay the taxes and fees should know their employees and their patrons well enough to know what they want and should be allowed to chose accordingly Itis their business! The people of Fargo have already voiced their opinion and this should not even be on the ballot. But since it is, can someone answer this for me. Part of this arguement is that it would create a level playing field. If the general public wanted a completely smoke free environment, why are the establishments that still allow smoking making it “unlevel”. If the majority wanted the ban, wouldn’t you see less people where there is smoking? The city wants to implement an additional sales tax - that will help the city government out when revenue drops. Do they have a plan to help out failing business when they have to close or can’t pay the taxes due to lost revenue? Do they have a plan to make up for the lost gaming revenue so the charities can still provide the services that they do?
June 4th, 2008 at 11:45 am
Smoking isn’t “good” for you. Neither is overindulging in alcohol, food, exercise or anything else, but if you’re smoking tobacco you are not doing anything illegal. Yet smokers are looked upon as low-class citizens. One important thing that you never read: The leading geneticists claim that unless you carry the gene for lung cancer you CANNOT DEVELOP THE DISEASE! It is an impossibility. This is true of any disease. My grandmother had cirrhosis of the liver yet she never in her 90 plus years drank a drop of alcohol. Do you think perhaps it was second-hand vapors that caused it? The statistics that claim X number of people die each year from second-hand smoke are nothing more than ridiculous propoganda. There is no possible way to tell how anyone contracted that disease. Black lung from working in a coal mine yes but second-hand smoke, NO!
June 5th, 2008 at 10:39 am
Dear Vertigo,
Thank you for backing the inititive last time you voted. Regardless if you like bringing your kids to Labby’s or not to play video games or pool, what you and a lot of voters do not realize is that many if not most of the bars involved in this that allow smoking cannot let minors in anyway. Your kids cannot legally enter the Empire, Rooters, Woody’s, Chubs, or any of the downtown bars as a matter of law. That is the way their liquor licenses are structured. It is also illegal to enter the hotel bars. Your choices in this case are being dictated by an age restriction regardless of smoking, minors have never legally been allowed to enter. Vote Yes, No, Yes.
June 5th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Kevin,
Why is “everybody up in arms about bars closing”? Because since the ban in Minnesota over 200 have closed. Not all because of “poor management”. Tell me how somebody in business for 20 years who doesnt owe the bank a penny close? Because customers stop comming in or spend less money. How would you like to lose your business, or take a pay cut? These are real issues not just a discussion in a blog. Smokers may still be going to the bar, but instead of buying say 4 drinks over 2 hours for example, they are only having 2 over 1 hour. That translates to 2 less sales for the owner and 2 less tips for the bartender. Multiply that by a 20 to 100 customers a day 6 days a week and that is a big number and a big reason why places are closing.
June 6th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
I am in support of a total smoking ban. Here is why there are holes in many of your arguements.
First off many of you have said that if employees didn’t want to work there was smoking allowed they should just quit and find a new job. How easy would it be for any of you to just up and quit and find some place else to work. I worked in the bar and restaurant industry for years. I can tell you that a cocktail server at Chub’s makes way more then a server at Applebee’s. Secondly, most places work on seniority, so to just quit your serving job and think that you will get the best shifts is rediculous. So that is one arguement gone.
Second is choice. Non smokers have a choice to go many places without smoke. Thing is, smokers can go ANYWHERE. If a smoker is at an establishment that does not allow smoking, they go outside. If a non smoker wants to go to a place that allows smoking, they have no choice but to reek like an ashtray when they leave. I don’t see how that is fair.
No on is telling anyone that they cannot smoke. Take you butt outside if you want to smoke. It is just simply leveling the playing field. Now everyone can go anywhere they want. I have some friends that have developed terrible athsma. Smoke can kill them. We used to like to hang out at bars that currently allow smoking. We would like to go back there and remiminse about the good old days but we can’t. If it was smoke free we could.
I don’t even want to get into the health risks involved and how much cheaper healthcare and insurance would be if everyone quit smoking, but i think that evidence is already out there.
On an ending note, I used to be a smoker. I now avoid bars that allow it like the plague. I enjoy drinking at places in Moorhead and Dilworth since they are smoke free.
June 7th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
I am an employee in a smoking environment - I work in charitable gaming. I truly believe in what my charity does for those less fortunate than myself. This smoking ban would cause a significant decrease in donations (through gaming) to my charity. Less donations = less good deeds we are able to do. We noticed significant losses when the partial ban went into effect.
Maybe this part of the issue is not as imperative as our right to choose being taken away from us, but taking away someone’s hope of help is just asinine.
Vote Yes No Yes
June 7th, 2008 at 2:55 pm
Dear Chris
You and I have been friends a long time, as I respect your opinion, I just dont agree with it for a couple of reasons.
First, you ask the question, “How easy would it be for any of you to just up and quit and find some place else to work?” For some people, it is easy if they do not like what they are doing.
Second, You then as much admit that a server at Chub’s (a smoking bar) makes more than a server at a bar that doesnt have smoking like an Applebees. You advocate a smoke free atmosphere, but you agree and are ok with the fact people will be making less money? Let me pose the question, How easy would it be for you to make less money in a year? How would you feel if I was voting for your livelyhood and your ability to support your family? Ask Lori how she feels about this.
Third, If all of the non-smokers were holding true to what they say and “will come out in masses to the smoke free bars” to make up for any loss of revenue. Why, I ask is there not another bridge being built to Moorhead to handle all of the traffic?
Why, are the Fargo bars not complete ghost towns? They are still busy. I hate to break it to you the Moorhead bars are down, a lot.
Finally, you say ” We used to like to hang out at bars that currently allow smoking. We would like to go back there and remiminse about the good old days but we can’t.” You and many others who say this now have families and spend most of your time with them. That is super, and I respect that, but you say you want to go back to these bars and “remiminse”. You dont mention that you want to spend money in these places on a daily, or even a monthly basis even if they were smoke free. Will that keep us open? Like it or not, smokers create a lot of foot traffic on a daily basis, not just once and a while foot traffic to “remiminse”. Duffy’s needs more than just St. Patricks Day to stay open. I used to go to Mick’s a lot in college and I wont be able to go back there if Terry closes his doors, and I am afraid that might happen. What good is this “level playing field” if bars on both sides of the river close? This “level playing field” wont make things better it will just hurt bars in 2 states.
I appreciate your post, and I respect your opinion. Have a Happy Birthday.
June 9th, 2008 at 11:25 pm
Ok… so what happened to all the bars in moorhead when they went non-smoking? Well I stopped going, and so did a lot of my friends… so they lost a butt load of business… Now if this happens in Fargo, I will gladly go and buy off-sale from a liquor store and sit at home and drink, so I can smoke. Anyone who works at a bar knows that they are submitted to second hand smoke… They are old enough to make a decision for themselves. Now to all you non-smokers that go to hte bar once a month… screw off! You aren’t there two, three even four times a week… this was already shot down once… ummm why are we voting on this again… hey I can catch mad cow from beef… let’s get rid of that too! I’m sorry but part of living in the good ‘ol USA is MAKING YOUR OWN DECISIONS! You don’t like smoking go to a non- smoking bar… the funny thing is that everytime I go by a non-smoking bar the lot has five damn cars in it…
Also… how does smoking effect you? Maybe there is a long term effect, I don’t know, I’m only 25. But, I have been submitted to second hand smoke my whole life… I even picked up my first cig when I was 11 years old… guess what I played sports all through highschool and college, and exccelled… so tell me what bad effect has it had? I could outrun Xcountry runners…
Now a little song from Matt Stone and Trey Parker (if you don’t know whoe they are… crawl out from whatever rock you have been living under for that past 12 years)
With a hydeelydee lyade and a hydeelydeea, we work and we make ciggarettes all lydeelydee day. So folks can take a break from their stressfull lydee lives and relax and enjoy a ciggarette every day and every night… I like to smoke a ciggarette every now and then it makes me feel calmer when the day is at an end, and if it gives me cancer when I’m 80 I don’t care who the hell wants to be 90 anyway!
So all you non-smokers can go to hell… I work my ass off all day long, if I want to go to a bar and have a few drinks and a smoke it is my right because I am a citizen of the USA!
June 10th, 2008 at 1:12 am
Spread the word like wildfire and make sure we let a very vocal minority know that we live in a democratic society and that adults have the right to make their own choices and not be bullied around by the holier-than-thou extremists.
On a personal note, I abhor smoking and consider it a filthy habit, but as long as it’s legal, I’ll defend your right to partake in enjoying it, because that’s what makes this country so great: the right to be free to make our own decisions. Also, the Supreme Court rejected the original EPA study that started the whole second-hand smoke propaganda machine in motion, which is what all the anti-smoking groups fall back on when cornered. If you don’t believe me, just do a bit of research. Penn & Teller’s show Bull**** did an episode in their first season regarding the second-hand smoke issue and did some wonderful research on the topic. I highly recommend a viewing as it is quite informative.
Maybe with this vote we can finally stave off the extremists for a good long time. It would be nice to be able to watch TV or listen to the radio without being assaulted by their nettling, cloying impudence.
Make your voice heard and let these businesses choose for themselves whether or not to allow smoking in their establishments.
June 10th, 2008 at 12:21 pm
I agree w/Dana’s post. If you don’t want to go to a smoking establishment, then go to the non-smoking one. No one is MAKING you go out to a bar that allows smoking. NO ONE IS MAKING you WORK in a smoking establishment. I work in a bar that allows smoking and I do smoke (however I do plan to quit soon), but it is up to each patron if they want to come in or not. Why don’t we vote on things like gas prices? Why can’t we govern those? These poor people on minimum wage (such as bartenders/servers) can barely (if at all) make it on min. wage with such high gas prices. Ya, they can bike it to work, but what about in the winter? So they can’t afford to go to work, so they turn to a life of crime to make fast easy money…so would it then be our fault for the crime level? Hmm…
June 10th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
I’ve just recently gotten back into the Fargo/Moorhead scene, having spent a number of years out in Seattle - where they DID pass a 100% smoking ban in public places wherein you could not be within 25′ of doors, windows or vents if you were smoking. While it works in Seattle because the weather in Seattle is conducive to stepping outside for a cigarette, Fargo’s weather is not. I can guarantee that, in the middle of winter, there will be a lot less business in bars if the smoking ban passes.
It seems to me that people aren’t using their brains anymore when it comes to passing laws. Think about the effects of what might happen, before you decide to take the law into your own hands. In this case, as has been said a number of times already, business can slow down which would lead to decreased hours for the employees who are already living paycheck to paycheck. Decreased business leads to decreased hours, which in turn leads to smaller paychecks and can contribute to the homeless problem.
In addition, I believe that a good point was made. If I, the business owner, am the one who is paying for the operating costs of the business, why should the government dictate whether or not I can allow smoking? As was said above, prohibition didn’t work for drinking. Why would it be any different for smoking? And yes, I realize that I would be paying for the operating costs with the gross profits paid to me by my guests/customers - but if my regular customers are smokers, then who should I be catering to? The regular customers who contribute heavily to my business remaining open? Or the people who show up once or twice a month?
If the vote is that important to you, vote with your wallet. Don’t want to go to a bar full of smoke? Then don’t. Don’t agree with how a business conducts itself? Then don’t patronize it. There’s no need to pass a law screwing others out of something they enjoy, simply because you don’t do it and don’t want to be “bothered” by it. It’s that kind of thinking that gives government power over the people, for starters, and sets us back as a civilization.
Sadly, there are a number of arguments that can be brought up with this - and all of them can be easily shot down with the same kind of defense that the blindly religious use. It’s a matter of free will… If you vote for the ban, you’re imposing upon the free will of the apparent majority in Fargo.
June 10th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
The point is not whether you like smoking or not. I’m a non-smoker who supports the bar owners. Can you imagine owning a business and having the government tell you what legal substances you can or cannot allow? What country is this that has so many citizens wanting to be controlled by the government.
As far as I’m concerned, this shouldn’t even be a legal issue. If Dick decided he didn’t like Jane’s red shirt and got a few gullible people to back him up, do you think we should be able to tell Jane she can’t legally wear red shirts anymore?
If you don’t like nudity, don’t go to the Northern.
If a law doesn’t directly support my right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, then it shouldn’t be a law. It should be my decision.
Some of you will argue that a smoking ban will support my “right to life”. Well, in that case, we’d need a ban from driving, flying, fatty foods, hunting, and on and on…..this needs to stop before it gets out of hand.
Vote Yes No Yes to uphold your rights as an American, not as a smoker or non-smoker.